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Showing posts with label media. Show all posts
Showing posts with label media. Show all posts

15 July 2013

Questions about the crash of Asiana flight 214

Over the past week, numerous questions and comments about the Asiana plane crash have been sent to Dr. Todd Curtis at AirSafe.com. Below are answers to some of the more popular questions posed by the public and the news media.

According to international protocol, who will be in charge of the investigation?

According to section five of Annex 13 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, the state of occurrence of the accident (in this case, the United States) is required to begin an investigation, and has the option of delegating the investigation to another state or to a regional organization. Typically in the US, the NTSB leads airline accident investigations, unless it is determined to be caused by a criminal act. If that is the case, the FBI takes the lead in the investigation. So far, there is no indication that there was a criminal act, so the NTSB will likely lead and complete the investigation.

How long until this investigation is completed?

Typically, an NTSB investigation takes over a year to complete. The NTSB has published 13 reports on aircraft accidents that have occurred since the beginning of 2009. The shortest time until completion was just over nine months, and the longest was just under 27 months.

The information presented so far by the NTSB seems to point to either a case of pilot error or mechanical failure. From what you have seen, is there any way that you can say which one is more probable?

It is too early to focus on any one possible cause since the NTSB is still in the early part of the investigation, and has only processed and released some of the factual data from the investigation. It is also possible that the probable cause (or probable causes) may include something besides pilot error or mechanical failure. As the investigation continues, the NTSB will know more about the causes of the accident.

While Asiana Airlines stated that the pilot who was in control during the landing was an experienced airline pilot, his limited experience with the 777 seems to lend weight to the pilot error argument. What is the appropriate length of time for a pilot to be trained?

That question is beyond my expertise, but I will say that standards for airline pilots are extremely high around the world, and part of that high standard includes extensive training when airline pilots transition to new aircraft. That training includes ground school to familiarize pilots with systems and procedures, as well as training in high-fidelity aircraft simulators, including full motion simulators, that simulate the sights, sounds, and sensations pilots would experience in an actual aircraft. These training programs have often been developed in concert with the manufacturer to ensure that the training reflects the behavior of the aircraft.

The South Korean government as well as the world's largest organization of airline pilots, the nternational Federation of Air Line Pilot's Association, criticized the NTSB for revealing too much from the Asiana flight 214 investigation. What do you think about the press conferences held by the NTSB since the accident?

The press conferences have been an excellent source of information about the investigation. In my opinion, the kind of information the NTSB has provided is similar to what has been provided from past accidents. The biggest differences between this investigation and prior major investigations have been the access provided to the public and the NTSB's use of social media to inform the public of the availability of recorded press conferences, photographs, and other information from the investigation. In short, the NTSB is providing information much more quickly, and in a more accessible manner than before, but the kind of information being released is consistent with what has been released in the past.

The 777 is reportedly one of Boeing's flagship products and has a strong safety record. Why do you think this is the case?

There are many reasons for this record, and one of them are the high certification requirements of the FAA. At the time of its development, the 777 incorporated regulatory requirements of the FAA, and of the equivalent organizations in Europe and elsewhere. One of those requirements was the inclusion of 16G passenger seats.

A 16G seat is one that is tested in ways that simulate the loads that could be expected in a survivable accident. These seats must withstand two different accident scenarios, one in which the forces are mostly in the vertical or downward direction, and one in which the forces are predominantly in the forward or longitudinal direction. The highest load factor these seats must withstand is in the forward direction at 16Gs (16 times the force of gravity). It is unclear what kinds of forces were experienced by the seats on flight 214, but the NTSB will determine that as part of the investigation.

All aircraft certified by the FAA after 1988 had to have these seats, and since the 777 was certified after 1988, every 777 was delivered with these kinds of seats. The previous FAA standard for commercial airliners was 9G seats.

There are several other regulatory requirements and industry innovations that were incorporated into the 777, and I will mention just a few:

  • Cabin materials that are more fire resistant and less likely to produce dangerous fumes when burned,
  • Evacuation requirements that include emergency lighting on or near the cabin floor so that they can be more easily seen in a smoke-filled cabin.
  • Ground proximity warning systems to help warn pilots when they are flying too low or flying in an area of rising terrain,
  • Collision avoidance systems that warn pilots when other airliners are on a collision course or about to pass at an unsafe distance,
  • Emergency exit systems that allow a 777 with a full load of passengers to evacuate all passengers in 90 seconds or less while using only half of the eight available exits,
  • Multiply redundant aircraft systems, including a flight control system that will allow differential engine thrust to be used if flight control surfaces are not working,
  • Main landing gear that are designed to break off in a hard or crash landing in such a way that the wing fuel tanks are not punctured, and
  • Communications systems, including radios to communicate with airport personnel and cabin public address systems, that will continue to operate after a crash even if electrical power is no longer available from the engines or auxiliary power unit.

As an aviation safety expert, what do you think made this crash so survivable?

Very likely several of the items mentioned in the previous answer helped to keep the number of fatalities low, particularly the use of fire resistant cabin materials, the design of the emergency evacuation systems, the design of the main landing gear, the availability of aircraft communications systems, and the presence of the emergency exit lighting on or near the floor. Another factor was the prompt response from emergency and medical personnel who were at and near the airport.

According to the NTSB, the pilots ordered the passengers to remain seated for 90 seconds after the plane came to a halt, until the cabin crew noticed a fire when the evacuation was initiated. Were 90 seconds too long?

The decision to evacuate an aircraft after a crash is made by the crew based on the conditions inside and outside the aircraft. According to the NTSB, the crew made the decision to evacuate when fire was seen outside the cabin. The NTSB will review the accident to determine if there were any problems or errors in the timing of the evacuation decision or the execution of the evacuation.

According to international protocol, how are accident victims usually compensated?

Compensation for events involving international flights is covered by the Montreal Convention, and damage sustained by a passenger or a passenger's baggage in the event of an accident is not subject to any financial limit. How the compensation happens can be complex, especially since the accident took place in the United States. Because of the location of the accident, there may be a variety of international, federal, and state of California laws that may be relevant. Typically, the parties involved agree to a settlement without having a trial, and the terms of the settlement are not shared with the public.

Who is responsible for paying for the claims of victims?

Usually, any private company, government organization, or private individual that has some or all of the legal responsibility for the accident may have to pay victim claims. While many different entities may be legally responsible, in the US, typically only private companies end up paying compensation to victims or their families.

Does the NTSB determine who is legally responsible for paying for the claims of victims?

The NTSB investigation is separate from the process for determining legal liability. While the NTSB investigation is typically completed in about a year, legal proceedings involving victim compensation may take much, much longer to complete.

There remains substantial data from Boeing and the airline that must be reviewed. What do you think is the focal point of this ongoing investigation?

I currently don't have an opinion about what the focus will be because the investigation is still in the early stages. The focus of the NTSB investigation is to determine the probable cause or probable causes that led directly to the accident, as well as to identify those contributing causes that indirectly led to the accident. As the NTSB stated in several of their briefings last week, there is still a substantial amount of information that has to be gathered and analyzed before they will be able narrow the focus of the investigation.

As far as safety is concerned, what long-lasting influence will this accident have in the aviation field?

The long term effects will largely be determined by the recommendations that come out of the NTSB investigation, and any additional insights that the industry may gain from this accident. Until the investigation is complete, it is very difficult to predict the long-term influences of this accident.

Additional information
AirSafeNews.com 13 July 2013 summarizing the two prior NTSB press conferences
AirSafeNews.com 10 July 2013 article on the role of the autothrottle
AirSafeNews.com 8 July 2013 article on early findings of the crash investigation
Other Asiana plane crashes
Other 777 plane crashes
Accident details from Aviation Safety Network
Wikipedia page on this accident

The day after the crash, Dr. Curtis of AirSafe.com and Capt. Tom Bunn of the SOAR fear of flying program, who both spent several hours on the day of the crash on cable news programs providing expert commentary, discussed the media's response to the accident and shared their thoughts on the early reports of the crash.

06 June 2013

Review the webinar on how to become an on-air expert for radio or TV

AirSafe.com WebinarsThe AirSafe.com live webinar on how to become an on-air expert for radio or television was broadcast on June 6th. In that webinar, Dr. Todd Curtis of AirSafe.com, who has been a guest for dozens of radio and television shows over the past decade, explained how he became a sought after expert for media outlets like CNN, BBC, and Discovery Channel, and explained several of the basic steps you shold take if you aspire to get on the air.


Dr. Curtis featured in upcoming television program
You can see and hear some examples of Dr. Curtis being interviewed, at the AirSafe.com YouTube channel. Also, in June 2013, Dr. Curtis will be featured in the four-part series Terror in the Skies, which will air Sunday evenings on the UK's Channel 4.

For viewers in the UK, the show will air American viewers will see a version of the series on the Smithsonian Channel but the date and time is still to be determined. Once this information, those on the AirSafe.com mailing list will be informed.

03 June 2013

Webinar on how to become an on-air expert for radio or TV

AirSafe.com WebinarsOn Thursday June 6, AirSafe.com will hosted a live webinar on how to successfully become an on-air expert for radio or television.

Television and radio broadcasters have a constant need to have on-air experts to comment on almost every possible area of expertise. However, being an expert is not enough to get the attention of the news media, but it is a necessary first step.

The webinar has ended, but you can see a video of the webinar below:

Note: You can see and hear other interviews featuring Dr. Curtis at the AirSafe.com YouTube channel.

07 November 2009

The Evolution of Social Media's Role at AirSafe.com

An earlier AirSafeNews.com article featured an audio podcast that discussed the role social media played in how the public found out about the January 2009 ditching of a US Airways A320 on the Hudson River. This article features a video based on a presentation that AirSafe.com's Dr. Todd Curtis gave at the 2009 Bird Strike North America conference. This show provides a general definition of social media and then provides specific examples of how it was used by AirSafe.com to expand the site's audience and to enhance the usefulness of its information.

Video and Audio Podcast Links (7:01)
Audio: MP3 | VideoiPod/MP4 | WMV | YouTube




Related AirSafeNews.com Articles
How AirSafe.com Uses Social Media
Social Media Insights from AirSafe.com
Social Media's Role in Airline Safety

Additional Social Media Resources
AirSafe.com Creates Online Radio Station
Social Media's Role in Airline Safety
How AirSafe.com Uses Twitter with a Mailing List
Ten Free Social Media Things You Can Do
AirSafe Media's Social Media Blog.

30 October 2009

AirSafe.com Survey Results Plus American Airlines 777 Turbulence Event near Tokyo

Survey Results for The Text to Speech Narrator
Since last week's debut of the Macbook's text to speech function as a podcast narrator, many of you responded to the survey about this narrator and have given AirSafe.com some valuable feedback. There were 78 responses, 63 of whome listened to the entire podcast. Of these 63, 10 said would not listen to this narrator again and 12 others were not sure if they would do so again. Most of those who would listen to this narrator again agreed that it would be appropriate for shorter podcasts.

Based on these results, this narrator will likely be used again, mostly for shorter episodes, or to supplement other audio content.

AirSafe.com Visitor Survey
In an earlier survey about what resources visitors use at AirSafe.com, most of the 35 who responded said that they visited multiple AirSafe.com related sites or services, with AirSafeNews.com, Plane-Crash-Videos.net, and the AirSafe.com podcast being the most popular choices.

Roughly half of the respondents have not listened to or viewed one of the podcasts. If you haven't done so yet, I invite you to check out one of the podcast videos that are hosted on YouTube. You can find all of audio and video podcasts are at podcast.airsafe.org

Only a few of the 35 admitted to using any social media resources. Also, when asked what they wanted changed AirSafe.com, the most popular response was adding more photos. A BirdStrikeNews.com article from last month addresses both points to some extent. In Ten Free Social Media Things You Can Do, AirSafe.com provided suggestions for free and easy to use social media tools you can use, as well as an example of tools that are actively used at AirSafe.com. Based on your feedback, some of them will be used on a more regular basis throughout AirSafe.com's network of sites.

By the way, some social media resources are in the right hand column. You can join the email notification list so you can get an email whenever this site is updated. You can also click on the Twitter logo and subscribe to AirSafe.com's Twitter account. If you don't have a Twitter account, you can easily sign up. Also, if you use Google Reader or another kind of RSS reader, you can click on the appropriate link or icon and subscribe that way as well. If you have no idea what RSS is all about, that will be covered in a future article.

American Airline Turbulence Event near Tokyo
Earlier this week, AirSafe.com came across several small article news articles about a turbulence event involving an American Airlines 777 (N777AN), Flight 61, near Tokyo on Monday (26 October 2009). Reportedly, nine passengers were injured and five, including three children, were treated at a local hospital after the aircraft landed. The plane encountered turbulence over the Pacific Ocean, about 70 kilometers (43 miles) southeast of Tokyo's Narita airport. The aircraft landed without further incident about 14 minutes later.

Passengers reported that the airplane had already experienced strong turbulence for about 20 minutes. Also, the 'fasten seatbelt' signs had been on for about 45 minutes before the event. There were 228 passengers and crew members aboard the Boeing 777.

Since this was an event that happened in Japan, and because it did not cause substantial aircraft damage or fatal injuries, it is unlikely that information from this incident will be in the accident and incident databases of the FAA or the NTSB. If you find any additional sources of news about this incident, please leave a comment and a link to that information.

Related Resources
Turbulence Risks
Selected Fatal Turbulence Events
Air Canada Turbulence Event from 2009
Child Restraint Advice from the FAA
TurbulenceForecast.com


Report About Air Canada Turbulence Event from January 2008


22 October 2009

Want to Improve AirSafe.com? - Fill Out This Month's Survey and Tell Us How

Welcome to AirSafe.com's October 2009 survey. We've made several changes over the last few months, and we want to get your feedback about your experience with AirSafe.com and the podcasts, blogs, web sites, or other resources associated with AirSafe.com.

Please answer one or more questions. We'll provide a summary of the results next month.





16 October 2009

How AirSafe.com Uses Social Media to Better Serve Its Audience and Why You or Your Organization Should Too

The January 2009 ditching on the Hudson River showed how important social media was as a source of news and information, and it also showed how freely available social media resources can sometimes allow an individual to be as influential as the largest news media organization. This show provides a general definition of social media and then provides specific examples of how it was used by AirSafe.com to expand the site's audience and to enhance the usefulness of the site's information.

This episode of the Conversation at AirSafe.com is based on a presentation Dr. Todd Curtis gave at the 2009 Bird Strike North America Conference in Victoria, Canada. The original audience was full of aviation safety professionals and wildlife biologists, but the subject of the presentation was relevant to any organization trying to figure out how to use social media more effectively.

Listen to the Podcast

The Evolution of Social Media's Role at AirSafe.com (7:02)

The role of social media in aviation safety community was previously covered in this site, as well as at the AirSafe.com site BirdStrikeNews.com

Previous AirSafeNews.com Articles
How to Include Free AirSafe.com Content in Your Site
AirSafe.com Creates Online Radio Station

Previous BirdStrikeNews.com Articles
Social Media's Role in Airline Safety
How AirSafe.com Uses Twitter with a Mailing List
Ten Free Social Media Things You Can Do

Another site with related information is AirSafe-Media.com.

10 September 2009

Social Media Insights from AirSafe.com

If you have used social media applications like Skype, Twitter, or LinkedIn, or are curious about how you can use social media, you may want to check out two recent posts on AirSafe.com's Bird Strike News site at http://www.birdstrikenews.com.

The first describes how AirSafe.com combines a blog with both a mailing list and Twitter to talk to three very different parts of the AirSafe.com audience at the same time.

The second talks about ten different free social media related applications you can try, from Blogger to Twitter to Google Alerts. For each type of application, AirSafe.com suggests one for you to try.

That post also has links to several examples of social media applications currently used by AirSafe.com.

Next week, Dr. Curtis of AirSafe.com will be in Victoria, Canada, where he will present the paper "Social Media, Bird Strikes, and Aviation Safety Policy" at the 2009 Bird Strike North America Conference. Attendees at the upcoming conference will have the opportunity to not only attend the presentation, but also to have Dr. Curtis evaluate their organization's approach to using social media.

06 September 2009

Social Media's Role in Airline Safety

Listen to the audio podcast of this article

The January 2009 ditching of the US Airways flight in the Hudson River was a rare combination of a spectacular plane crash that generated massive worldwide attention without killing anyone.

The plane went down as a result of a midair collision with a flock of geese shortly after takeoff from New York's La Guardia Airport. For aviation safety organizations involved with dealing with the threat of bird strikes, among them Bird Strike Committee USA, the US Airways ditching in New York was an important event because the accident will very likely lead to industry wide changes in regulations and procedures associated with bird and wildlife hazards.

This event also served as an excellent example of how popular social media applications like Twitter and YouTube affect how the public finds out about plane crashes. It also shows that any organization that wants to play a significant role in any public debate about bird strike hazards should aggressively use these and other social media tools to help educate and inform the public.

While the accident took place on the doorstep of the most important media center in the United States, many of the early images from the crash came not from the media, but from witnesses. One of the most well known photos was from a cell phone camera of Janis Krums, a passenger on one of the ferry boats that helped to rescue passengers and crew. The picture was uploaded from the passenger's iPhone to TwitPic, a service that allows Twitter users to upload photos (see photo on TwitPic).

Twitter wasn't the only social media application working overtime that day. Video sharing sites like YouTube were flooded with user-generated content that collectively had hundreds of thousands of views within a day.

If social media applications like Twitter didn't exist, a plane crash in New York City would still get massive amounts of attention from the major media. However, the "Miracle on the Hudson" accident also showed how an average eyewitness of a dramatic news event like a plane crash can easily distribute images and other newsworthy information that could reach tens of thousands in a matter of minutes.

Until recently, one of the few options for online publishing was through a web site. Ten years ago, AirSafe.com helped launch the Bird Strike Committee USA web site, Birdstrike.org. One of the stated purposes was to have the site act as a resource for the media and the general public, especially if there were an event like as a bird strike-related crash.

Even in the days before Google, search engines were the most important way that users could locate information online. Because the birdstrike.org web site had been active for many years, and because it included a wide range of bird strike related information, the site was often among the top results for many bird and wildlife strike related searches. Because of this, major media organizations were able to find basic information about bird strikes and to contact many of the key Bird Strike Committee USA members, and as a result many of these members were able to provide insights and information to a broad audience in the hours after the crash.

It used to be that you only needed a solid web site, or perhaps a blog to keep an online audience informed. This approach is no longer good enough. You need more than web sites and blogs to keep in touch with an audience, because that audience is using emerging social media tools to develop different kinds of ongoing relationships with other users, and to find news and other information.

For an example of the differences between the Internet of today, and the Internet of a few years ago, one just needs to look at the online realities of two New York area plane crashes, TWA Flight 800 in 1996 and the 2009 Hudson River ditching involving US Airways. Flight 800 happened in July 1996, just two weeks after AirSafe.com was launched. While there were many web sites like AirSafe.com that provided information on the crash, web sites controlled by major media organizations like CNN and the BBC were by far the most important sources of information for news about the crash.

In 1996, there was no YouTube, Twitter, Blogger, Facebook, Flickr, or any other easy to use tools for sharing photos, videos, and other information online. While AirSafe.com had plenty of information about Flight 800, the site had only a tiny impact on the public's awareness of the accident, with only about 35 visits on the day of the crash.

In contrast, within minutes of the US Airways ditching on the Hudson, there were thousands of people around the world who were contacting each other on Twitter, uploading videos to YouTube, and photos to Flickr. True, much of it was simply copied from traditional news organizations, but some of it was both original and unique. In many cases, traditional media relied on the public for information rather than the other way around. By the way, traffic on AirSafe.com was a bit higher in 2009 than it was in 1996, with about 12,000 web site visits on the day of the event, plus at least 5,000 views or downloads of AirSafe.com's initial podcast about the crash.

The changing nature of the Internet, and the dramatic rise in the importance of newer social media applications, makes it necessary for organizations like Bird Strike Committee USA to expand its relationship with the Internet. Fortunately for the Committee, there are many examples of social media use that can be followed, and most of them require no up front or ongoing costs. Perhaps the most pressing needs are in the following three areas: first, a review of existing web site policies and content to ensure that the site continues to rank well for key wildlife hazard related search terms. Second, development of policies or guideance for the use of evolving social media applications, to better coordinate public education and public outreach efforts. Third, encouraging the use of these same social media technologies among the organizations that support the work of the Committee.

While the early development of an informative web site was an innovation that put Bird Strike Committee USA well ahead of similarly structured aviation safety organizations, recent events have highlighted the fact that adopting at least some of the newer social media technologies is essential if Bird Strike Committee USA is to maintain its relatively high online profile.

For additional information about Bird Strike Committee USA, and about bird strike-related issues, please visit birds.airsafe.org.

Selected Social Media Applications Used by AirSafe.com
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Delicious
Flickr
Podcast (main page)
Podcast (subscription)
Mailing List
Prlog.org (online press releases)
Bird Strike Blog
Crash Video Blog

27 April 2009

Using Media Attention to Promote the Need for More Thoughtful Data Analysis

Since the very beginning of AirSafe.com, intense media focus on aviation safety events, typically plane crashes, have presented opportunities to bring the work of AirSafe.com to the attention of the media and the general public. The increasing variety of advanced search and social media applications have made it easier than ever to quickly identify opportunities to promote a greater understanding of aviation safety.

The recent FAA policy proposals concerning public access to their bird and wildlife strike database, and the reversal of those proposals, resulted in something unusual when it comes to the the media and aviation safety--intense media attention that didn't involve a plane crash. AirSafe.com used one of the many free search tools from Google to find newspapers and other news media that were writing about that database, allowing AirSafe.com to take specific steps to engage the public and the media in a further dialogue about issues related to analyzing that database.

When the FAA proposed to severely restrict the public's access to the FAA's bird and wildlife strike database in March 2009, it ignited controversy as well as hundreds of news stories related to the proposed policy change. When the DOT and the FAA reversed course the following month, it led to hundreds of other articles, many of them focusing on the strike record of specific airports and airlines.

This spike in interest represented an opportunity to increase AirSafe.com's audience by using the media coverage to direct people to bird and wildlife strike information on AirSafe.com's web sites and blogs.

The key was that many of these articles allowed readers to leave comments. AirSafe.com left comments on many of these articles, making sure that the comments invited the reader to visit AirSafe.com related online resources that provided additional information about bird and wildlife strike related issues.

Finding the articles was particularly easy, with the most important tool being Google Alerts, a free service that allows you tell Google to search for recently published content that contain specific keywords of interest.

The full plan to take advantage of the sudden public attention had three parts:

1. Use Google Alerts to find out what news stories were coming out online (in this case, the search terms [+faa +"bird strike"] were used).

2. Find the articles with the largest potential audience and either post comments to the article (always mentioning at least one of AirSafe.com's bird strike related resources).

3. If an article from a medium to large media organization had contact information for the writer of the story, I'd make a point to contact that person by phone or email and offer to provide information or answer questions.

By using Google Alerts research to find news articles, I was able to easily find dozens of opportunities to post comments to articles and use those posts to direct readers to some of my resources. In addition, I also found relevant media contacts that I could help or that could help me later.

Each of AirSafe.com's comments were a variation of the following message:

Releasing the data was the right thing to do on the part of the FAA. The right thing to do on the part of the public is to use the data as a way to understand a problem and not as the final answer.

Keep in mind that the FAA bird strike database is voluntary, so you can't just look at the raw numbers. Aggressive reporting is only one reason why there may be many reports in the database from a particular airport or airline.

Aviation organizations like the AirSafe.com Foundation offer many insights into how one should approach aviation safety data. Many of their bird strike examples are at birds.airsafe.org and strikevideos.blogspot.com.


It's not too late to do this kind of thing for your organization. Whether it is for bird strikes or for something else related to aviation, if you have a blog or web site that needs a boost of attention and traffic, and there is a major media frenzy that is relevant to your site or blog, try this three step marketing method yourself. Even if you don't place comments, it is an excellent way to identify reporters whom you may want to approach later.

21 July 2008

Secrets of AirSafe.com: A How-to Guide on Becoming an Internationally Recognized Expert

In this fourth episode of the special series Secrets of AirSafe.com, AirSafe.com creator Dr. Todd Curtis talks about how he has been able to get interviewed by major national and international news media organizations, and he describes how he used his experiences, credentials, and published works to attract the attention of producers and editors at newspapers, magazines, and television.

Information about the special series is available at
http://secrets.airsafe.org

You can hear the podcast at
http://www.airsafe.com/podcasts/show55_secrets4.mp3

The transcript of this podcast is available at
http://www.airsafe.com/podcasts/show55.htm

14 July 2008

Secrets of AirSafe.com: How Visitors Use the Site

In this third episode of the special series Secrets of AirSafe.com, site creator Dr. Todd Curtis shares his observations of how visitors use the site, and how these traffic pattern continues to influence the content of the site.

Information about the special series is available at
http://secrets.airsafe.org

You can hear the podcast at
http://www.airsafe.com/podcasts/show54_secrets3.mp3

The transcript of this podcast is available at
http://www.airsafe.com/podcasts/show54.htm